Don't Let the B*stards Get You Down or F*ck Your Minnesota (N)Ice

[lydamorehouse]

 I had a very Minnesotan experience at the coffee shop today that I thought I'd share.

For those of you who don't know me very well, let me paint you a picture. I'm the sort of person who keeps up a running monologue, out loud, all the time. Mostly, people around me deal with this in one of two ways: they choose to engage or they choose to ignore me. I do this mostly intentionally. Like, most of the time, I realize I'm just sort of talking to myself out loud. But, I live in Minnesota, the land of the stony silences and "mind your own damn business." (<--Which Governor Waltz tried to sell as a plus, but which is actually, in practice kind of 50/50 a Good Thing. Some people call this "Minnesota Nice," others of us call it "Minnesota Ice.") 

So, there I am at the coffee shop. I have just had a lovely little "how was your New Year's eve" chat with my barista Frankie, and I'm sort of drifting over towards the pick-up line continuing my thoughts on New Year's out loud. I happen to see that the question in the little notebook they keep at the counter says something like, "What's your New Year's resolution?" At this point, I happen to look up and see someone staring at me, and I have a sudden awareness that I've narrated this out loud. So, thinking that his person has, in fact, chosen to engage by making eye contact (an extrovert signal to each other), I say, intentionally, to her, "Do you do New Year's resolutions?"

She seems weirdly taken aback for someone who has been openly staring at me, but says that, no, she doens't do that kind of thing.  

Again, I think to myself, ah I have accidentally engaged an introvert, but here we are, so I will just continue some pleasatries, like one does. So, I generally agree that there are just some resolutions not worth making, since you're only going to break them, and then say, "Even so, I like to set myself little themes for the year, so this year I'm hoping to make one new friend."

She says in the MOST Minnesota Ice tone possible, (people from the South, please imagine this sprinkled with lots of "Oh, hon!" and "Bless your heart"s.)  "Well. Just keep talking to strangers, I'm sure it will work out for you."

For non-Minnesotans: this was a full-out smackdown. Translated to New York, "Well, you fucking weirdo, if you keep on like this, you might luck out and find another asshole just like yourself!"

But, it's 2025, and my personal theme is Don't Let the Bastards Get You Down.  So, beneath my mask I gave her a dark sneer and then LEANED INTO TO PRETENDING I THOUGHT SHE WAS BEING KIND. I looked her in the eye and I basically said, "You think so, really? That so nice of you to say. You know, I'm not From Around Here and where I'm from people are friendly and kind and we all talk to each other to say hello and what not. Have you ever left your neighborhood? Or had more than your three childhood friends? No, I didn't think so, so anyway, New Years is such a lovely time of year, isn't it...."

I mean, I wasn't quite so blatant, but, Lady, here's a pro tip. If you don't want the weirdo talking to you, you're supposed to AVERT YOUR EYES. You would, in fact, know this if you had ever traveled say, to any city larger than St. Paul east of here. It's also clear you've never been west of here because people in California are actually a lot like me... and why I LOVED visiting there. (Which is, incidentally where I was born, though it should not have made the impression on me that it clearly did, as I only spent the first 6 months of my life under the Californian sun.)

Comments

[profiterole_reads]

Ha ha, yeah, I could feel it was a smackdown from the way you wrote it in bold. ^^

[lydamorehouse]

Clever use of kerning, eh? (Well, whatever font us is when you emphasis things!)

[coffeetime]

AHAHAHAHAHA.

In Madison, this person would probably talk to you for an hour. Depending on the venue they might go full Charlie Behrens on you. Hard to believe MN is that different, but I've heard it's true...

[lydamorehouse]

Yeah, see, I was raised in LaCrosse, Wisconsin, and I basically grew up talking to people the way I do now? So, yeah, I think there is a really BIG cultural difference between Wisconsin and Minnesota.

To be fair, I grew up in LaCrosse, Wisconsin so I honestly felt like I was from a foreign country because when I wanted a water fountain, I, naturally, asked for a bubbler. People looked at me like I'd spoken Japanese. I was reduced to charades.

I should write a blog post about my first week in the dorm, where I spent a large part of my time trying to figure out what the call-and-response was supposed to be to "What's up?" (Spoiler: answer="Not much.")

[coffeetime]

I grew up in Ohio, and in Ohio it is not syntactically weird to say "your hair needs washed" or "this floor needs mopped." I found out in a graduate writing workshop in Chicago that it is "wrong" outside Ohio!

Also, I'd never heard anyone say "whaddya know" to mean "what's up" until I moved here. I'd never heard anyone say "or no?" to end a sentence, eg. "You coming to the bar with me, or no?" I already knew about bubbler, for some reason.

[conuly]

The fact that people with the needs washed construction don't realize how unusual it is remains the most interesting thing about it imo.

Though I think you also hear it in some part of Scotland. Or maybe Ireland?

[lydamorehouse]

I am endlessly fascinated by regional differences in languages. The one that I heard at home, but not once I'd moved to Minnesota was the construction "Up to the..." as in, "I just need to go up to the grocery store for something."

I have not heard "Your hair needs washed" I've heard, "Your hair needs a washing" but perhaps that's more standard construction.

[conuly]

"Well. Just keep talking to strangers, I'm sure it will work out for you."

Here in NYC I talk to strangers all the time and it absolutely does work out for me? Like, ffs, what is wrong with that woman?

[lydamorehouse]

See, I LOVE visiting either coast. I am deeply fond of New Yorkers because I was raised Unitarian Universalist who was taught that argument is a sacrament. So, I tend to get along with people who have opinons. I scare Minnesotans.

And, who knows? All I can say is that in Minnesota you're really supposed to "mind your own business" by which often seems to mean "be quiet in public." Being quiet is just not something I'm good at? It's all the Norwegains, Sweedes, and Finns who have settled here. There's a real state-wide culture that is very Nordic.

[sartorias]

What the heck is wrong with talking out loud? (But then I do it all the time.)

[lydamorehouse]

Who knows? I clearly just rubbed this lady the wrong way. I mean, to be fair to her, I am rather strange. :-)

[pameladean]

I've lived here a long time, I'm shy and don't like interacting with strangers, but I was horrified by that woman's response, and yours made me laugh til I cried.

I've always found you very disarming, so if you did talk to me in public as a stranger, I am pretty sure it would be absolutely fine.

P.

[lydamorehouse]

I can't say I'm 100% great at 'reading the room' but honest to god(s), I was in the middle of the kind of conversation gambit that could have signaled 'okay, enough of that.' But then she dropped her snotty reply and I went full "oh, you're uncomfortable???? I'll give you uncomfortable!"

Which, in my defense. I did not yet HAVE my coffee. :-)

But thank you. I *try* to be aware of how I'm coming off.

[pameladean]

Long ago at Minicon, Tate Halloway and I did a signing together, stuck out next to a pillar in the echoing second floor where nobody, apparently, could find us. I was underslept and absolutely tongue-tied. You were SO GREAT. At some point, the only two people I recall coming to get either of us to sign anything arrived simultaneously, we each signed for our lone fan, and then we couldn't revive the fragile thread of communication. I guarantee this was mostly my fault. But because we'd had a cordial conversation, we were able to relapse into our phones for the rest of the hour.

P.

[lydamorehouse]

Aw, this is a nice story. I was really fortunate, early in my career, to have an opportunity to be in close proximity to more famous writers when I was doing signings. One of my favorite early ones was when Uncle Hugo's added me to one of Lois's signings. I literally gave up and just held books for her to sign. :-) (Although my friends did come out in force, it was just difficult to compare to her flood.)

The love of my life is a hardcore introvert, so I'm decently good the care and feeding of introverts when I need to be! :-)

[bcholmes]

I've only been to Minnesota something like three times in my life. But I've known enough Minnesotans that I feel like I know a lot about Minnesotan ways.

I feel like I should make a trip back there to compare the quaint customs of your people with the things I have been told.

[lydamorehouse]

We are very quaint. SO. QUAINT.

If you want to drive Minnesotans crazy, watch the movie Fargo and go around comparing the way we are to what you've seen in the movie!

But you should come!! (Your name actually came up today as someone we should invite to Gaylaxicon!)

O_O

[ysabetwordsmith]

I note that, not only is the world full of assholes, they're becoming more brazen all the time with their assholery.

And then people wonder why America has a raging loneliness problem because, oh yes, humans are troop animals that tend to go insane and die if separated too long. :/

If you want to talk about your New Year's resolutions -- or other goals, or even alternatives to goals -- check out goals_on_dw which is at peak activity right now.

My goal list is here. I love talking about this stuff because sometimes I find cool new ideas to try.

Re: O_O

[lydamorehouse]

Ooo, thank you for the invite. I might do.

And yeah, despite this strange lady's response to me, friendship is my theme for the year.

Re: O_O

[ysabetwordsmith]

Friendship is a great theme.

Lots of folks choose a theme instead of specific goals. It's more versatile -- you can use to make mindful choices through the whole year. Does this fit the theme? If so, do the thing! Keep It Simple has some ideas on what to do with a year theme.

Re: O_O

[lydamorehouse]

Nicce, thanks again!

[eagle]

I am rather introverted and therefore am not the type to strike up conversations with strangers, but if one strikes up a conversation with me, often that's fun? Certainly not something to shut down rudely!

One of the joys of random conversations in coffee shops with extroverts is that they'll do 80% of the work and you can just be polite and listen for things you have something intelligent to say about, and unless you're both planning on parking there for a long period of time, there's a natural time limit to the conversation. And then I as an introvert can go off feeling like I have fulfilled my quota of talking to another human for the day and had a nice random conversation, and everyone is happy.

But then, I'm from California. :)

[lydamorehouse]

Ha!

And as the extrovert in this imaginary scenario, yes. This is a limited, no-commitment conversation. I don't want to take up anyone's time, I'm usually just passing a moment making light observations. If you don't want to join in, my presumption is that you won't. Or that you will otherwise make it obvious that you have better things to do. This is why god made phones!

However!

MEETING MY GAZE DIRECTLY is some kind of extrovert predatory challenge! My brain lights up and says, "Yes? You would like to engage??"

But, like, I can usually read the 'nah, I just want to wait for my coffee in silence' vibe.

Ah well. I was clearly born in the right place, but moved to the wrong one. :-)

[house_wren]

I love your story. So good.

I've had Minnesotans tell me that I am 'too friendly' and also 'too enthusiastic.' This felt like a full slap in the face at the time.

They did not comment on my being 'too polite' to tell them I thought they were cold and unwelcoming. hahaha.

[lydamorehouse]

HAHAHHA!

Yeah, Minnesotans have NO IDEA how polite I'm really being.

And. "too friendly" is something I get a lot. I feel you.

[pshaw_raven]

"Well. Just keep talking to strangers, I'm sure it will work out for you."
Say that in Florida and she's made a permanent new friend, because we'll probably respond exactly like you did. I'm deeply introverted and I do it, too. Maybe we all wind up with that Florida Man vibe, even if we're transplants ... but then I moved from Louisiana, another state where no one minds their own business. XD

[lydamorehouse]

Right? In Minnesota the insults are so WEIRD. Like, yes, thank you, I WILL. :-)

Poor Florida. Y'all get saddled with the Florida Man/Woman thing and it's not fair. I like Southerns quite a bit, but I have been burned by the "bless your heart" thing. The funniest cultural conflict I had with a Southerner was when my wife and I vistited a friend in North Carolina and her parents thought we HATED them because we'd been raised to call someone's parents, "Mr. and Mrs. X" and they both had nicknames, one of which was "Boy" (my friend's father... and.... I just... couldn't. It felt too weird.) But, so we had to all sit around the table with my friend Julie acting as an interpreter!

[pshaw_raven]

I think Florida gets that reputation because of how our Freedom of Information laws are. It was always easy for Reuters or the AP to just pull some Florida news story off the wire as filler. And on top of that, stories about someone throwing an alligator into a Wendy's drive-thru window get more attention. Thus, Florida Man was born.

I can understand your reluctance to call someone's dad "Boy." ROFL I'm in the habit of calling people (Fox's parents for example) Mr. Paul and Ms. Linda.