No Condom Swag

[lydamorehouse]

This last weekend was Gaylaxicon, which I was quite honored to be one of the GoHs of this year.  When I arrived and checked-in/registered, I thought that the con was likely off to a VERY BAD START when I discovered that there were NO condoms (or lube!) in the swag bag.  I spent the next several hours complaining about this, btw.  Loudly.  Luckily, most people ignored me.  Because, really, it turns out (as I actually knew from last time Gaylaxicon was in town) this was not THAT KIND of con.  Gaylaxicon is all about content... or at least mostly... granted I probably said "penis" more at this con than I do at most, but when I did, believe you me, it was in the pursuit of higher knowledge/intellectualism.

There was a lot about the con I enjoyed tremendously. I got to be a squeeing fan grrl all over J. Michael Tatum, who is not only the voice actor who portrays Sebastian in the Anime "Black Butler" (among other roles--you may also know him from "Ouran Host Club",) but also ridiculously cute and funny all on his own and, it turned out, on the one panel I was on with him, he's REALLY SMART AND THOUGHTFUL, too.  I know, right?  How unfair!   That's really all I remember of Friday night, ie embarrassing myself by babbling, "ohmygodohmygodohmygod, you're so coooooooooooooooool" to a complete stranger, and also saying something about as articulate in my Guest of Honor welcoming speech.  I should also say that I had a previous interaction with Gary Russell on the Thursday night GoH dinner, in which I became convinced that he was constantly sneering at me (though particularly when I talked about Marvel Comics).  Turns out, he was only British.

Saturday I had a really phenomenal panel about women writing M/M slash, which was something I came to the con wanting to talk about.  I'm not sure we concluded anything about why queer women like to write boy on boy porn, but we did figure out that it's more complicated than you'd initally think.  I also encouraged everyone to attend the midnight slash panel, and lured them all there by a promise that one of the other GoHs, Kyell Gold, would be reading his Wiley E. Coyote/Road Runner.  I think I did a bunch of other awesome things and talked to a lot of other amazing people, but really that midnight reading will be forever seared into my head as probably one of the most awkward-embarrassing-fantastic nights of my life. 

The midnight slash reading was really well attended.  Which meant that getting started reading porn was REALLY DIFFICULT for me.  I have been known, in fact, in the past, to employ a stunt reader.  This time, since Kyell was telling me to be brave, I finally (probably after a half hour of dithering embarrassment) did.  It worked out really well as what I read was kind of sweet/sexy foreplay ("Other Duties as Assigned") , his was a fairly explicit pay off, and then my second piece was kind of funny/sexy afterglow ("Too Many Captains Spoil the Plan").  So, hopefully the audience felt they got a full experience.  I suspect folks must have because we were only scheduled to go for an hour, but we didn't leave the room until 2:00 am.  It was incredible.  Kyell's husband recorded his portion of the slash reading and if/when they post it anywhere, I will post a link here, too.  Apparently, my facial expressions during some of it were kind of precious.  (I was very nervous/excited and TOTALLY INVESTED in the story.) 

Sunday was my busiest day and also kind of a blur, but I remember some more panels and more hanging out with all sorts of wonderful people.

Oh, and for the record, after this con, if anyone disses a furry in front of me, they're in for an earful.  As my friend naomikritzer said to me, "F*ck the Geek Heirarchy," the furries I met this weekend were AWESOME.  Also, they wear tails sometimes.  GET OVER IT.  In fact, I have agreed to attempt some Komamura slash for the folks at the slash reading who liked my Bleach fic.  (Bleach has a furry character, a captain who is a wolf/fox demon.)

Then suddenly it was all over and I was back home and being asked to cook dinner and do the dishes.

Comments

[empty-mirrors.livejournal.com]

So what sort of things came up at the queer women writing M/M panel? In my experience people tend to boggle at me when they find out I'm queer since apparently they assume that m/m is a genre favoured by straight women.

[lydamorehouse]

One thing that always comes up on panels like this one is this idea that m/m slash somehow removes power politics from sex. I spent a lot of the panel refuting that idea, because I discovered that when I started writing it I LIKED pairing characters with unequal power dynamics (as in a military commander and his subordinate) and then playing around with expectations about sexual aggressiveness, etc. (as I who tops when and why).

We also suggested that one of its appeals is that it's the queer that isn't us--you know, a chance to not have to deal with issues inherent to lesbian sex/relationships but still get to be an exploration of queerness. Plus since we were all SF/F writers we assumed a natural curiosity of the other, and writing about the alien that is like us, but also significantly not.

I also think there may be some internalized sexism--I tend to think dudes have it easy and can be more sexually adventurous. That's probably not true, but that assumption is fun for me. I don't have to worry about writing a motivation about why a guy would want sex, because we all know boys are horny all the time, right? :-)

That was just some of what came up. I'd love to hear your thoughts too.

[empty-mirrors.livejournal.com]

I think you're definitely right about it being a way of exploring queerness without all the inherent day to day familiarity of a lesbian relationship. There's certainly some of that for me.

Almost certainly the internalised sexism as well, and for good reason. There's still a tendency to need to justify women, in whatever pairings, getting down and dirty and it normally involves reams of conversation and connection first. With the right characters, the boys'll drop trew as soon as look at them. Of course some of them won't, but you can always apply alcohol, it works wonders in my experience. :D

Having said that, my worry, as always, is that not being a member of the minority being portrayed, I am being exploitative. I know I can get touchy when straight men start waxing lyrical about how sexy lesbians are and I wouldn't want to do the same thing to gay men. I do my best to ameliorate the guilt around the issue by trying to be fairly realistic in my portrayals and refusing to perpetuate some of the nastier tropes in the genre, especially in yaoi. It's a bit of a minefield and I know people's opinions vary. *shrugs* you can't please everyone all the time but you can do your best not to be offensive, I think.

Power differentials... hm. That falls a bit close to home for me. I'll happily read m/m power sex with no problems whatsoever. Queer female power sex is okay, and so is het but ONLY if the woman is topping. I just can't read it the other way around, even if it's consensual. It makes me feel nauseous. So, for me, writing m/m is a great way playing with power which doesn't even come close to setting off my triggers.

Following on from that, I'm quite fond of males aesthetically, so the pretty is always nice. Writing m/m gives me a chance to have a gawp and a leer without the accompanying eww boy cooties that tends to kick in when they're real. I can appreciate the good bits without the bits that turn me off men.... if that makes any sense at all.

[lydamorehouse]

Okay, you're going to have to explain the tropes of yoai. I know I should *know* given that I write in a fandom from which it originates, but I'm a baby-Anime fan, so I have no real idea (except to figure I must have read it, given what I read.)

Yeah, you make a lot of sense to me. I find men pretty to look at, too--all sorts. Actually what I've always found strange in my life is that I find a much wider range of men attractive than I do women. Women usually have to vibe 'available,' so I tend to find lesbians attractive... or women who 'read' as gay. Since I don't plan to date them, I guess I can appreciate what's hot about a larger segment of the male population. That phenomenon, of course, clearly lends itself quite nicely to m/m fanfic.

You really got me thinking more about power differentials too. Dubious consent is something I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole if it were M/F, but somehow in M/M is okay for me. I'm not sure I entirely like what that says about me, but in my defense this translates to other things, too--like, I'll read all sorts of S/M/B/D of all orientation flavors, but I don't really like to play those games in real life (tm). Reading them REALLY works for me; doing them REALLY doesn't. So clearly there's an element of fantasy/pretend that's in it for me, for sure.

That's probably strayed into TMI, but I find this whole topic really fascinating. We only briefly touched on questioning whether or not we felt that we were "othering" gay men--I wish in some ways, there were more men (or one) on that panel. I'm sure there's a man out there somewhere who reads and/or writes slash who could tell us about that. For my part, too, I try to portray the emotional part of the story sensitively.

I'm babbling. But thanks for starting me thinking again!

[empty-mirrors.livejournal.com]

Re: tropes. Mostly it's the seme/uke thing which, though I know has it's basis in Japanese culture, just aggravates the hell out of me. It smacks of fangirls who are more interested in 'the pretty' than lived experience and who are quite happy pottering around appropriating people's sexuality and perpetuating insulting stereotypes because they find it cute or sexy or fun.

*argle* That might have come over ranty but it really bugs me.

I'm also pretty much a newbie in anime fandoms so when I first hit the 'you put the seme's name first in the pairing' thing I kind of boggled. It's an anathema to me, since that is so rarely the way I see any couple - gay, straight or in between - unless it's within a very specific, and noted, situation, eg. BDSM or whatnot.


ROFL on the 'available women' thing. I'm right with you, though that doesn't stop me from appreciating the female pretty along with the male. There is a massive difference between 'real' and fantasy. Which kinda bleeds over to your next points and ties back into the first one.

*climbs on orange box*

Fantasy hitting reality is always going to be a problem. It's thought crime versus real crime. Is dubcon in the head as bad as the real thing - to which the obvious answer is 'of course not', except if by consuming/producing it you're creating an environment where the real thing is seen as less problematic. Is there any real harm in straight men writing lesbians as just needing a real man - theoretically no. It's fantasy, it's harmless. Does it play into existing and extremely problematic stereotypes? Yes. Could it be suggestive that corrective rape is a valid position? Dodgy but arguable.

The trouble with all writing/reading is that it doesn't exist in a vacuum - all of which you already know, so please excuse my mini rant. You asked for thoughts.... LOL bad move.

[lydamorehouse]

Ah, you're absolutely right. This is why I can't actually write true non-con. Dubious con I can, if only if I take the time to make it clear that everyone is nominally "into it."

Yeah, you know, it was funny that some people were surprised that name order on the slash is important in some fandoms. AO3 used to have seperate Renji/Byakuya and Byakuya/Renji, but my Renji first seems to have disappeared in the various upgrades to that site. So I actually always WARN in the front notes when I put Renji on top, because apparently this matters a whole lot to a lot of people. Which as a queer woman I find a bit odd. I don't know a lot of people who are this strict in their bottom/top roles in REAL LIFE (tm). And, it's a fantasy I don't necessarily _get_, you know? For me, that's part of the fun--switching things up.

I have other thoughts, but I need to percolate on them.

[empty-mirrors.livejournal.com]

Looking forward to percolated thoughts. In the meantime....

I think it's where the definitions of top and bottom and seme/uke and such like start intersecting with behaviour outside the bedroom is when I really have the issue.

Let's be frank, it's when the guy getting penetrated is assumed by 'feminine' or submissive and that is supposed to be reflected in the general behaviour of the character to the point that they're almost entirely OOC. That's the point at which I start to see red - and orange and violet and all the other colours of the rainbow. What! No place for topping from the bottom? No switching it up. No junkenpo for who gets to be lazy tonight? No place for the control freak who lets go at night?

Which isn't to say, as I said before, that there isn't a place for fics with strictly defined roles. But, imo, to write inside those rules you have to at least acknowledge that there's an outside and that those rules are not always the norm. Unless you're writing in a specific historical or societal setting, in which case I'd like to see some referent which suggests you're (by which I mean any author, not you, obviously) aware of the cultural context. *sigh* Or at least when I look down your fic list not to see fic after fic after fic which embraces exactly the same tropes. That kinda makes me jumpy. I start thinking the author doesn't get it.

Thankfully your stuff is entirely free of that kind of thing. Plus, although Byakuya is front runner for toppiest guy in SS atm in your soap opera, I'd like to think that by the time they've have finished thrashing out the details, he'll have got over himself enough to let go a little and enjoy himself with Renji, in whatever way that manifests, rather than feeling like he always has to be completely in control all the time. Poor guy'll end up with an ulcer, if he keeps this up. :D

In conclusion, there's a wonderful bit in a KakaIru fic that springs to mind whenever I have this discussion with someone, where Kakakshi is day dreaming about Iruka and he says something along the lines of he can imagine Iruka throwing him down and begging for it or lying back and demanding it. That always strikes me as summing up the whole deal. Roles are there to be played with and to me that's what 'queer' writing is about.

Damn it, I thunked thoughts again and all over your lj.... Erm, oops? Sorry.

[lydamorehouse]

"Oops?" No, "Yay!"

I think this is one advantage I have at being so completely new to Anime fanfic that I had no idea that so much of those stereotypes existed. (And, OMG, did I know you _read_ my soap opera? *dies a little*) I can't imagine writing a character as fem IN ALL SITUATIONS just because he's the bottom at any given moment DURING SEX. (I totally see Renji topping in Renji/Shuuhei or Renji/Izuru, btw. I tend to think he only lets Byakuya top him, but I guess that's MY fantasy.) Is this why everyone is always so surprised/grateful when I make Renji competent and/or badass?

There are characters I can see that working for, though one of the things that was discussed at the actual slash panel was about how there are different kinds of sexual power for "bottoms." Kyell Gold was talked about experience and skill being a way that a bottom can excercise dominance over the top--which I found totally fascinating coming from a gay guy. I see something like that totally working for a character like Yumichika, for instance. People (and by that I mean people both in the context of the story as well as the readers) are always going expect him to bottom, but he could totally be the one with all the power under the right circumstances. I do allude to Renji doing that at one point in my never-ending soap opera (and yes, Byakuya is totally going to settle down now. I felt his uber-control freakiness was in character for the moment they were in the story. He's been knocked down by both Renji and Ichigo now. And I get to write Renji teasing out his more playful side in this current series. JUST WAIT until Renji's birthday. I have VERY BIG PLANS. :-)

[empty-mirrors.livejournal.com]

Re me reading your stuff: I normally comment over on AO3. You might know me better as cestus or Josey LOL. I only commented here for this 'cos it was a non fic specific thing. Not stalking you, honestly.

And yes, I think that's why they comment about your Renji. He bottoms but he's still completely empowered which, though not as uncommon as it was, is still a wonderful thing to read.

Yumichika and Shuuhei, now there's a pairing that screams topping from the bottom if ever there was one. I don't think I will *ever* recover from that panel of Shuues lying there all out of puff after Yumichika finished with him. T'was a truly pretty sight. They should be written more often. I'd try myself but all my Bleach fics are on the backburner atm. I've just got my Naruto xmas exchange request so that has to take priority. Alongside my masochistic attempts to teach myself Japanese, that is.

Aww, Renji teasing out Byakuya's playful side. *sighs happy sigh* I'll just sit here quietly and wait for that, you don't mind do you? :D Though they're not my OTP (I don't think I have one for Bleach) I do love the two of them together when they're well-written.

[lydamorehouse]

I wondered if I'd embarrass myself when wondered if you read my stuff. It's not like I've never pointed people over here. Oh, yay! Hi! Glad you're talking here, as well (TALKING, not stalking... I think you spelled that wrong. There's no "s" in front of talking.)

And okay, did I miss my chance to sign up for Yuletide? Cripes. The one year I finally decide to try it and I totally miss any sense of when sign-up is and how it works.

Teaching yourself Japanese. I do this periodically, too. Though I am still SERIOUSLY considering coming up with a fan podcast to teach the Japanese we all really want to learn, ie, "Ah! What is that monster rising out of Toyoko Harbor??" or the alternate life of "John Learner" wherein instead of everything going smoothly through customs he ends up on the lam in a yakuza den trying to buy fake ID.

[empty-mirrors.livejournal.com]

*waves* Thanks for the welcome.

No, it wasn't Yuletide sign-ups, it's a specific exchange for the KakaIruFest community, so you don't have to panic yet. :D Though if you're talking about the small fandoms Youetide thingie, Bleach isn't on the list this year. :(

That sort of intro to Japanese would rock! Most of them are so boring, it'd be good to have some that were more story than 'repeat after me.'

I'm actually working on the writing side first since part of my interest comes from wanting to read manga raw. Plus, from the grammar stuff I've read, rumour has it that learning the kanji/kana actually helps with the grammar since you can gain a better grasp of conjugations if you read it first.

I've started using Memrise and so far I've got the katakana and hiragana sussed. Now I've moved on to the kanji, which is going ok. And actually, speaking as someone who has failed *so* many times at learning other languages,I am enjoying it a lot and it seems to actually be sinking in. Even the spoken stuff. When watching subbed anime now I can pick out about three words per sentence on average. *blows own trumpet* Plus it's fun. I like fun in learning.

[lydamorehouse]

Congrats!

Yeah, I understand failing languages. With my dyslexia, I have a better chance of picking a language up by accident/through listening. Except this means, of course, in Bleach, I've learned all the inappropriately rude sentence constructions and I swear I could probably pull off, "What is that amazing spiritual pressure?" since that could be the Bleach drinking game.

What? No Bleach on Yuletide. Okay, well, crap. I'm out.

[empty-mirrors.livejournal.com]

Bleach drinking games should include:

Bankai! - all participants have to make constipated faces.

Kurosaki-kun! - only for the females in the group and only if they can shift their speaking voice up an octave.

Taicho! - for both boys and girls, but the boys have to be wide eyed as they say it and the girls motherly.

And finally 'Don't call me Shiro!' which only applies to those under five feet tall and who can glower in a convincing fashion.

I would assume the 'What is that amazing spiritual pressure?' would come attached to some quirk? Panic perhaps? Or an urge to check Ken-chan's current location?

On the Yuletide front... Doesn't Bleach run it's own through any of the comms? Seems sad if it doesn't.

[empty-mirrors.livejournal.com]

Also thank you for congrats! I got so carried away with the drinking game idea I forgot to be polite. Sumimasen.

[lydamorehouse]

Whoa! Total Japanese fail: forgetting to be polite! Twenty points from Hufflepuff! :-)

No worries. Apropos of nothing, have you ever come across JAPANESE STREET SLANG? It's an awesome book that I will read for fun, despite my lack of speaking ability in Japanese. It explains EVERYTHING ICHIGO AND KENPACHI SAY. (And, why AUs that have Kenpachi as a mafia/yakuza boss actually make sense if you understand he's been talking like one since the second he walked on stage.) :-)

[empty-mirrors.livejournal.com]

*That* sounds like loads of fun. I shall have to have a poke around see if I can find myself a copy. The trouble with most of the language courses is, they're like all these things, aimed at tourists and business people. Great for ordering coffee and merging corporations, not so good for street brawls and teenage shinigami.

[lydamorehouse]

I have no idea. You have no sense of what a complete newbie I am to both Bleach fandom AND the fanfic community.... I read fanfic for years, but this is my first time participating.

As for the drinking game... now I totally want to fly to whatever part of the world you're in and watch Bleach with you! Though OMG the Ichigo/Grimmjow fight would cause us to suffer alcohol posioning from all the "Kurosaki-kun!"s.

Also if this is an awake time for you, you should go over to AO3. I wrote a line in the latest fic just for you (and this conversation.) It's not huge, but I smiled when I had Renji say it.

[empty-mirrors.livejournal.com]

I'm glad you decided to start participating, though (and kick me for being cheeky) don't let it consume you. I read your thoughts about instant gratification with feedback versus actually selling things and yes, I would agree, fanfic is completely addictive in terms of the instant, 'rat pressing the button' high. I know that I flounder when I start writing original stuff because I feel like I'm writing into a void. Fanfic is so much easier on that level.

ROFLMAO! Alcohol poisoning indeed. I do have a soft spot for Orihime, though I'd fear for the children if she and Ichigo ever bred. All that intelligence and so very little common sense. *shuddder*

Awake time indeedy! I'm in deepest darkest, currently wettest, west Wales, so I'm very much awake.

*potters off happily to read*

[lydamorehouse]

You need to be MORE cheeky with me. Consume? I think it's way too late for that. It's been an obsession. But, I realized on the slash panel discussion that fanfic is part of how I PLAY. Writing fanfic actually sets off the same kind of adrenaline rush that role-playing games did. And, I was a HUGE RPG gamer, but, as Naomi pointed out on the panel, at least with RPGs, there was someone who actually stopped the game because it was 2 am, and everyone needed to sleep or eat or pee.

No one stops me from writing. This is probably a big part of the "problem," if there is one.

HOWEVER, on the flip side, I think that fanfic has kept me sane and not depressed during this fallow contract period because I am, at least, still in the habit of putting words on page.

[empty-mirrors.livejournal.com]

I can completely see the connection between RPG and fanfic. There's the same buzz to fitting your story in around the GMs rules and intense interaction with other people, even if it's not over a tabletop.

The only answer to the 2am stopping thing is discipline, as I'm sure you know. Me? I have none, hence the acres of fanfic and single published short story of mediocre quality. Ironically I've had more published academically, though that's so many years ago now it might as well be a different lifetime. If it wasn't for this xmas story I'd be tempted to take you up on the NaNoWriMo and tackle one of my original stories - you know I think I used the exact same excuse last year. See this is why fanfic is so bad for you. LOL.

[lydamorehouse]

In all seriousness, this is part of the "addiction" issue, I talked about previously. It's SO MUCH FUN to write fan fic, and, frankly, A LOT MORE WORK to write original fic... and it's awfully easy to say, "Oh, I just write a little fic and then..." and never get around to the 'and then.' All I can say is that I sort of knew this about myself and stayed away from fanfic for a long time, except as a reader.

However, that's not to say that fic hasn't been good for me. I might have stopped writing entirely, but for having a fun outlet for writing.

You and I should become Real Life(tm) friends and encourage each other to write original stuff. And, actually, I was going to try to find a way to privately ask you on AO3 if you ever wanted to consider collaborating on something Bleach related. We can talk about that here or, you can email me at lyda.morehouse@gmail.com

[empty-mirrors.livejournal.com]

They do say writers are people who can't help but write, and I think that's probably true. The past couple of years have been thin for me because of some personal stuff and also because I got sucked into playing World of Warcraft as a way to switch off. Now that is terrible for feeding addictions. Part of the reason I'm not playing so much these days is that I found I was spending more time, and getting more enjoyment from, writing the characters' stories in my head than actually playing.

I'd definitely be interested in both your suggestions. I need encouragement to write 'real' stuff since, as I said, it feels like writing into a void a lot of the time. It's disheartening not having anyone to share with or bounce ideas off. My SO is excellent for verbal help, she'll let me witter on at her about world building ideas and such, but she's not good at reading things so I tend to fall down at that point.

On the collaboration front, I've co-written stuff before a few times. It was a fun experience and one I'd be more than happy to repeat. I've done turn and turn about that's more like RP and also taken turns writing instalments in a longer tale. Do you have a specific methodology in mind? Or a specific storyline? Format? Googledocs might work, though I have a bad feeling that they're pulling it soon, more's the pity. Thoughts?

[empty-mirrors.livejournal.com]

BTW if you'd rather chat on email the addy is sang.passionne at virgin.net

w00t!

[lsanderson.livejournal.com]

WooT!

Glad you had a good time.