Heroes and Enemies
Apr. 2nd, 2010 04:20 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
lydamorehouseAs I noted below, Shawn and I spent her birthday shopping. We spotted a HalfPrice Books in Roseville we’d never seen before -- though, according to the clerk, they’ve been there for two and a half years. For us, it was like a mirage appearing in the desert.
Anyway, Shawn checked out the new releases and I headed for comics. I found some Brubaker DAREDEVILs and ran into my friend and fellow writer Bob Subiaga, who was also hunting for cheap, used comics. He and I chatted, and I left with more stuff for me and Mason than for Shawn, alas.
When Shawn went to Kohls to shop for costume jewelry earrings, I sat in the car and read DAREDEVIL:
#84 / “The Devil in Cell-Block D” (part 3)
#85 / “The Devil in Cell-Block D” (part 4)
#86 / “The Devil in Cell-Block D” (part 5)
#87 / “The Devil in Cell-Block D” (finale)
#88 / “The Secret Life of Foggie Nelson”
#89 / “The Devil Takes a Ride” (part 1 of 5)
#105 / “Without Fear” (part 3 of 6)
I was never much of a Daredevil fan in my youth. I think used to perceive Daredevil as somewhat inscrutable (as he points out in one of the above, it’s not *his* thing to fight and talk) and, because he’s always portrayed as a serious loner, he wasn’t much fun to pretend to be when playing superheroes. My cousin and I used to prefer superheroes who were already part of a team (Avengers, X-Men, Fantastic Four) or gregarious enough to blend into an existing group, ala Spider-Man.
Plus, like Tony Stark/Iron Man, I’m never really sure how “good” Daredevil is. He’s always been out there as a vigilante – which is one of the things that I’ve always disliked about DC’s Batman (who is probably the closest DC analog to Daredevil, or visa versa since Batman came first.) But it’s more than that. I was doing the dishes just now trying to figure out why I have so much trouble sympathizing with Batman and, by extension, Daredevil.
I think you can judge the quality of a hero by his enemies. My favorite heroes fight my favorite villains. My favorite villains are often tragic in some way. Dr. Doom could have been a friend to Mr. Fantastic if only his pride and arrogance hadn’t consumed him so totally (and pride, as you may have guessed, is a sin I’m quite fond of.) Victor von Doom is what Reed Richards could be, but for the grace of god.
Likewise, Magneto is kind of the mutant version of Malcolm X (Professor X being Martin Luther King, Jr.). He wants freedom and equality for mutants, damn the cost (or screw humanity, as the case may be). Yet, often, Magneto makes a compelling argument, which is what makes him interesting to me. Professor X and Magneto are two sides of the same coin. Both want a word with mutant equality, they just have different methods.
The enemies of Daredevil (and the enemies of Batman) scare the crap out of me. Kingpin is a ruthless mob boss; the Joker is insane. If you go with my idea that enemies make the hero, than what does that say about Daredevil or Batman? There but for the grace of god you have a ruthless killer (Daredevil) and an insane megalomaniac (Batman).
You can kind of see it, can’t you?
Despite my deep reservations about Daredevil, I liked what Brubaker did (for the most part “quantum bullets” aside,) with the CAPTAIN AMERICA storyline, so I thought I’d give his DAREDEVIL a try. I enjoyed what I read as a story, but I’m still not terribly sold on Daredevil as a character.
By accident this set of DAREDEVILs and the Straczynski AMAZING SPIDER-MANs that I picked up earlier shared a common theme, which could be summed up in the question: what could make a superhero break (and become a villain)?
Interestingly, both answered basically the same way -- someone you love must die/or be dying.
For Daredevil, it’s his long-time law partner/bromance Foggie Nelson, who gets “shanked” while visiting Matt Murdock in prison. To be fair, Foggie’s apparent death is, for Matt, likely just the final the nail in the coffin. Getting sent to Riker’s Island is probably just as difficult, especially given that even without people knowing/suspecting that he’s Daredevil, as a lawyer, he helped put a lot of the inmates there in the first place.
Just as I suspected, in the darkness, Daredevil’s true character comes out, and I don’t like him. Over the course of the six part arc, we watch Matt slip closer and closer to becoming a cold-hearted, ruthless killer. It takes a wake-up call from the Punisher (of all people!) to shake him out of an unholy alliance with Kingpin _and_ Bullseye.
If I were more of a Daredevil fan, I’d appreciate this look into Matthew Murdock’s soul. But I’ve known it was dark and twisted there since reading the “Saints and Sinners” storyline back in the 90s (or 80s… whenever that was.)
I think I found Spider-Man’s struggles/descent into madness/criminal behavior more interesting simply because I like Peter Parker better. However, I can’t say it’s because his villains are favorites, though it’s notable that Doc Ock is a messed up, brilliant scientist and Peter certainly could have gone down that road. It’s actually kind of hard to point to just one darker version/antithesis of Spider-Man. His enemies are Legion, as it were. Perhaps his most persistent villain is the Green Goblin, and that wouldn’t say anything particularly nice about Petey – except, perhaps, that any evil he does, he does without knowing and that basically, at heart, he’s a good guy.
Okay, maybe it says a LOT.
Both the Green Goblin and Spider-Man have “daddy issues,” both making them essentially who they are. I can actually sympathize with Green Goblin when he’s Ozzy Osbourne (or even his father.) So my theory holds.
And yet no one has invited me to attend ComicCon; what’s up with that? *teasing*
Anyway, Shawn checked out the new releases and I headed for comics. I found some Brubaker DAREDEVILs and ran into my friend and fellow writer Bob Subiaga, who was also hunting for cheap, used comics. He and I chatted, and I left with more stuff for me and Mason than for Shawn, alas.
When Shawn went to Kohls to shop for costume jewelry earrings, I sat in the car and read DAREDEVIL:
#84 / “The Devil in Cell-Block D” (part 3)
#85 / “The Devil in Cell-Block D” (part 4)
#86 / “The Devil in Cell-Block D” (part 5)
#87 / “The Devil in Cell-Block D” (finale)
#88 / “The Secret Life of Foggie Nelson”
#89 / “The Devil Takes a Ride” (part 1 of 5)
#105 / “Without Fear” (part 3 of 6)
I was never much of a Daredevil fan in my youth. I think used to perceive Daredevil as somewhat inscrutable (as he points out in one of the above, it’s not *his* thing to fight and talk) and, because he’s always portrayed as a serious loner, he wasn’t much fun to pretend to be when playing superheroes. My cousin and I used to prefer superheroes who were already part of a team (Avengers, X-Men, Fantastic Four) or gregarious enough to blend into an existing group, ala Spider-Man.
Plus, like Tony Stark/Iron Man, I’m never really sure how “good” Daredevil is. He’s always been out there as a vigilante – which is one of the things that I’ve always disliked about DC’s Batman (who is probably the closest DC analog to Daredevil, or visa versa since Batman came first.) But it’s more than that. I was doing the dishes just now trying to figure out why I have so much trouble sympathizing with Batman and, by extension, Daredevil.
I think you can judge the quality of a hero by his enemies. My favorite heroes fight my favorite villains. My favorite villains are often tragic in some way. Dr. Doom could have been a friend to Mr. Fantastic if only his pride and arrogance hadn’t consumed him so totally (and pride, as you may have guessed, is a sin I’m quite fond of.) Victor von Doom is what Reed Richards could be, but for the grace of god.
Likewise, Magneto is kind of the mutant version of Malcolm X (Professor X being Martin Luther King, Jr.). He wants freedom and equality for mutants, damn the cost (or screw humanity, as the case may be). Yet, often, Magneto makes a compelling argument, which is what makes him interesting to me. Professor X and Magneto are two sides of the same coin. Both want a word with mutant equality, they just have different methods.
The enemies of Daredevil (and the enemies of Batman) scare the crap out of me. Kingpin is a ruthless mob boss; the Joker is insane. If you go with my idea that enemies make the hero, than what does that say about Daredevil or Batman? There but for the grace of god you have a ruthless killer (Daredevil) and an insane megalomaniac (Batman).
You can kind of see it, can’t you?
Despite my deep reservations about Daredevil, I liked what Brubaker did (for the most part “quantum bullets” aside,) with the CAPTAIN AMERICA storyline, so I thought I’d give his DAREDEVIL a try. I enjoyed what I read as a story, but I’m still not terribly sold on Daredevil as a character.
By accident this set of DAREDEVILs and the Straczynski AMAZING SPIDER-MANs that I picked up earlier shared a common theme, which could be summed up in the question: what could make a superhero break (and become a villain)?
Interestingly, both answered basically the same way -- someone you love must die/or be dying.
For Daredevil, it’s his long-time law partner/bromance Foggie Nelson, who gets “shanked” while visiting Matt Murdock in prison. To be fair, Foggie’s apparent death is, for Matt, likely just the final the nail in the coffin. Getting sent to Riker’s Island is probably just as difficult, especially given that even without people knowing/suspecting that he’s Daredevil, as a lawyer, he helped put a lot of the inmates there in the first place.
Just as I suspected, in the darkness, Daredevil’s true character comes out, and I don’t like him. Over the course of the six part arc, we watch Matt slip closer and closer to becoming a cold-hearted, ruthless killer. It takes a wake-up call from the Punisher (of all people!) to shake him out of an unholy alliance with Kingpin _and_ Bullseye.
If I were more of a Daredevil fan, I’d appreciate this look into Matthew Murdock’s soul. But I’ve known it was dark and twisted there since reading the “Saints and Sinners” storyline back in the 90s (or 80s… whenever that was.)
I think I found Spider-Man’s struggles/descent into madness/criminal behavior more interesting simply because I like Peter Parker better. However, I can’t say it’s because his villains are favorites, though it’s notable that Doc Ock is a messed up, brilliant scientist and Peter certainly could have gone down that road. It’s actually kind of hard to point to just one darker version/antithesis of Spider-Man. His enemies are Legion, as it were. Perhaps his most persistent villain is the Green Goblin, and that wouldn’t say anything particularly nice about Petey – except, perhaps, that any evil he does, he does without knowing and that basically, at heart, he’s a good guy.
Okay, maybe it says a LOT.
Both the Green Goblin and Spider-Man have “daddy issues,” both making them essentially who they are. I can actually sympathize with Green Goblin when he’s Ozzy Osbourne (or even his father.) So my theory holds.
And yet no one has invited me to attend ComicCon; what’s up with that? *teasing*
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Superhero comics
Date: 2010-04-02 09:39 pm (UTC)Nate
Re: Superhero comics
Date: 2010-04-05 02:37 pm (UTC)It's funny because while a lot of comic fans seem to share SF/F fandom, it's not always true in reverse.
no subject
Date: 2010-04-02 09:59 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-04-05 02:42 pm (UTC)Mason accidentally turned me on to Brian Michael Bendis' NEW AVENGERS because they a copy at a Target (we were bored while mama shopped.) Bendis isn't someone I follow regularly, though he's responsible for one of my favorite "recent" storylines (Civil War)-- as well as my least favorites (Skrull Invasion).
Anyway, from there I kind of got the comic bug again and on the recommendation of my comic guy, Lance, formerly of Dreamhaven Books & Comics, I picked up Ed Brubaker's CAPTAIN AMERICA...
So it's really random these days. Plus money tends to figure highly. It's hard to keep up with even one title without spending a fortune.
P.S. Love the spacesuite. Mars suits you!
no subject
Date: 2010-04-03 01:23 am (UTC)One of the reasons I like Spider-Man is that he ISN'T defined by some single overarching villain. For an awful lot of heroes, this just isn't true. Superman --> Lex Luthor. Batman -->Joker. Daredevil -->Kingpin. Fantastic Four -->Doctor Doom.
Having one, almost un-alterable, villain as the opponent forces any approach to the character into some narrow channels. There is no adaptation of Superman that avoids Lex Luthor; in fact, he's thrown in at the beginning, almost invariably. Ditto the Fantastic Four and Doc Doom. Ditto Batman and the Joker.
In these cases, yes, you can make a pretty good argument that in many ways the hero is defined by his opponent. Superman is the one blessed by advantages who has thus had the luxury to develop an unswervable morality, the mirror-opposite of Lex Luthor who has had to create all of his advantages through a driving will that left him, in the end, with no time for the luxury of a moral compass. Doctor Doom, as you said, is the genius who allows vanity and pride to direct his course, while Reed Richards is the genius whose only true sin is dedication to the truth. And so on.
Spider-Man is very different. While the Green Goblin is -- especially these days -- probably his most recognizable foe, in his career he has had not one or two, but a round DOZEN foes who have been formidable, long-term adversaries of often very different stripes. These have ranged from industrialist-gone-amuck Green Goblin to Victim of Science Curt Connors/The Lizard to Mad Scientist Doctor Octopus to master of illusion Mysterio, Kraven the Hunter, The Vulture, and more -- and that's without getting into the Symbiote stuff. He's also opposed by non-supervillain forces ranging from J. Jonah Jameson to his landlady of the moment.
Other heroes have a lot of opponents, but the most well-known heroes are mostly defined by a single villain or pair of them.
Spider-Man is thus not defined by *A* villain, but by how he approaches his life as a hero -- by how the one moment of FAILURE he had to act rebounded instantly on him, with a vengeance. When written properly, Spider-Man is one of the greatest single exemplars of Hero in the Marvel universe. He has failed once, and refuses to fail again, and has driven himself beyond human limits -- even SUPERhuman limits -- to prove this. There are a few Marvel heroes more powerful, and one who is clearly even more the exemplar of the Hero -- Captain America -- but there is no other who has LIVED that life, from top to bottom, more extensively and intensely.
no subject
Date: 2010-04-05 02:45 pm (UTC)I really love that moment in "Breakout" NEW AVENGERS where Spider-Man confronts *all* the villians he put there -- and it's way, WAY more than any other superhero. (Of course, I DON'T love how beat up he gets, but it's one of those moments when you realize just how HARD Peter works at being a hero compared to everyone else.)
no subject
Date: 2010-04-05 02:49 pm (UTC)Though to be perfectly honest, I always have mixed feelings. I'm never ANGRY, though. I'm usually sad that I didn't quite grab the reader, alas. But, you can't write the perfect book for EVERYone. It's just not possible. But, I usually look to see if I signed the book to anyone and then think nasty thoughts towards anyone who dumped a signed book.
But, my goal as a writer has always been to be read. I'm happy to find my books in libraries, and I'm happy to find them in used bookstores because it means that they're out there available for people who might actually enjoy them.
Plus, I don't know about you, but if I pick up an author on the cheap (used) and discover I really LIKE them, I often buy the next book in the series (or by them) new when it comes out.